Boys: A holistic perspective
Jun. 15th, 2004 01:32 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
tanaiseI don't think I've told most of this story cycle on LJ before. but some of you may know bits and pieces of it from other times. I can't tell which to start with--the current events or the ancient history. I guess I'll do chronological.
In HS, there was a boy I had such a crush on. He was two years older than me, and he'd stop by my art class from time to time to see the teacher--I think it must have been his study period, or maybe his lunch, and he'd often horse around with us. We'd flirt and joke, nothing serious. He was older than me, graduating in the spring (I can't remember when this was, I'm guessing late fall, as I don't think I took art class after winter semester sophomore year, but maybe I'm wrong). He wasn't interested in dating me, he liked me because I was funny and made him laugh. I knew this, and I was okay with this. It wasn't anything I could do anything about. But one of my friends thought there was more to it than that. And she'd nag me to ask him out. So one day, she stops him in the hallway. And said, "Why don't you ask Celia out?" I was there--I don't remember what he said, just that the general translation would "Oh, hell no." I think it was probably more polite than that, but I'm not positive.
Now, he'd stop by my art class, but he'd also walk the same way home as I did. And this wasn't a pure coincidence. He lived along my way home, but walking with me wasn't at all the most efficient way for him to go. And yet he would. I'd walk home tuesday and thursdays, and for a while he'd be there most times. I don't remember how long this went on for, as this was 11 years ago or so, but enough that I still remember it. After Lauren asked him if he liked me, he never walked the same way again. He stopped coming to art class, or stopped talking to me when he was there. I'm not actually sure if he *ever* talked to me again. And what hurt wasn't that he said no. I knew he'd say no. (see below for why I knew this). What hurt was that I'd liked him, and I'd liked talking to me, and I'd thought he'd liked it too, and yet he stopped. He rejected *me*. Not the suggestion, *me*. And I'd thought he was a nice guy, and in fact I still do. And this behavior that was so anomolous, I didn't know how to handle it, I didn't know why he changed, and all I knew was that he wasn't going to change back, and I was going to have to get used to walking home by myself again. He's married and lives in CA now, if i remember correctly. I looked him up last year sometime, I think maybe when I saw his mother at the grocery store. I'm sure he didn't mean to scar me the way he did.
And this is why I'd rather not risk it if I don't know what the results will be. I know he was a HS boy. I'm pretty sure at this point that he was embarassed by the whole thing and didn't want to have to deal with me. I know that boys that I talk to at age 27 won't do this to me, and that if they do, it's a good sign that I wouldn't have wanted to do anyhthing with them anyways. But I worry. I like having friends. I don't want to trade a sure thing for a potential.
I did not date in HS. No one wanted to date me. No one ever asked me to do anything even vaguely date like, and I still don't know why. So you all can tell me I'm cute all you want (and you know who you are), but everyone else dated so I'm not going to believe you--even the valedictorians. Only the really really geeky boys didn't date, and me. I had one boyfriend, he was the best friend of my best friend's boy friend, he was from another school district, and we lasted all of two weeks, and yet i some how managed to seriously mess him up for a pretty long time. I didn't handle it right, but I didn't really know how to handle it, just that, in retrospect that was not the adult way to do it. I was 15. I was scared of being stuck in a relationship that I couldn't get out of, which was what I saw my best friend in. I'm sorry I hurt him, but I didn't know how else to get out.
So all my ancient history was not good, and severely traumatic. But I do actually have good boy things as well in my less ancient past--I made guy friends in college. I told someone I didn't want to date them (not in so many words, but without hurt feelings). I had many many people who I loved a whole lot. it was good. My senior year, I had such a crush on another senior. And I actually acted on it. He was on again/off again with a nice girl, and besides it was college and people at my college didn't date so much as go places together in large groups on a regular basis and then end up naked together. But I was brave, and asked him to a couple of things over the year--fireworks one time, i remember, and a party type thing another, and some third item but he couldn't ever do them but either was polite enough or truly interested, and thus always had real reasons he couldn't do them, and also always ended up returning the invites, but always to things I couldn't go to because I was busy with one thing or another. (a hockey game, most notably. And how I wanted to blow it off, and how I couldn't.) And it didn't get easier. It was freaking hard every time I asked him, but he just said no, sorry. He didn't stop talking to me, and he didn't change, and he'd still flirt with me a little (we weren't really in overlapping friends groups, so I only knew him from class, which limited the type of flirting.) One of my classes ended when he had a class start, and he would always be in the hallways when I came out of my room, and would always chat for a minute or two. And I remember having an outdoor class and thinking how annoying it would be not to get to chat with him for another day or two. And when he came up along the path to the class building, instead of going inside and being in the hall when I came out, he lingered on the steps and smoked ever so very very slowly so that when our class let out, oh, look at that, there he was.
I haven't dated since the boy in HS, and I tend to concentrate a whole lot on how messed up some of my interactions were. But I need to stop that. They made me, and they scarred me, and that's fine, but I need to remember how things were when they worked out. How wonderful spending time with Tom was. How fun even my limited interactions with Andy were. How much I like flirting with people. I don't know if it'll work, but I'm going to try. And you all need to remind me, okay?
Which brings us to current events.
No free tea today, which is good, cause I would have felt like a tramp, seeing as I um, sort of, asked the office boy out. It wasn't like, "Hey, want to go on a date." And he may not have known that was what I was asking, which was the way I wanted it to be. but he'd mentioned wanting to see a movie that we'd talked about before, and so I wrote to him and said that if he wanted to see it after work some time, that I thought it was a good idea. Which hopefully he even saw as an invitation, I don't really know. He said basically thanks but no thanks, and that was it. And an hour later, we discussed the fact that clearly no one will allow me to be dictator because they know how many people I'd have shot.
In mostly unrelated news, while people can't tell if I'm checking them out while I'm wearing sunglasses, they can tell if I tilt my head so I can see over the tops of the sunglasses, so perhaps I'd like to remember that for other mornings walking through the park. Dweeb.
In HS, there was a boy I had such a crush on. He was two years older than me, and he'd stop by my art class from time to time to see the teacher--I think it must have been his study period, or maybe his lunch, and he'd often horse around with us. We'd flirt and joke, nothing serious. He was older than me, graduating in the spring (I can't remember when this was, I'm guessing late fall, as I don't think I took art class after winter semester sophomore year, but maybe I'm wrong). He wasn't interested in dating me, he liked me because I was funny and made him laugh. I knew this, and I was okay with this. It wasn't anything I could do anything about. But one of my friends thought there was more to it than that. And she'd nag me to ask him out. So one day, she stops him in the hallway. And said, "Why don't you ask Celia out?" I was there--I don't remember what he said, just that the general translation would "Oh, hell no." I think it was probably more polite than that, but I'm not positive.
Now, he'd stop by my art class, but he'd also walk the same way home as I did. And this wasn't a pure coincidence. He lived along my way home, but walking with me wasn't at all the most efficient way for him to go. And yet he would. I'd walk home tuesday and thursdays, and for a while he'd be there most times. I don't remember how long this went on for, as this was 11 years ago or so, but enough that I still remember it. After Lauren asked him if he liked me, he never walked the same way again. He stopped coming to art class, or stopped talking to me when he was there. I'm not actually sure if he *ever* talked to me again. And what hurt wasn't that he said no. I knew he'd say no. (see below for why I knew this). What hurt was that I'd liked him, and I'd liked talking to me, and I'd thought he'd liked it too, and yet he stopped. He rejected *me*. Not the suggestion, *me*. And I'd thought he was a nice guy, and in fact I still do. And this behavior that was so anomolous, I didn't know how to handle it, I didn't know why he changed, and all I knew was that he wasn't going to change back, and I was going to have to get used to walking home by myself again. He's married and lives in CA now, if i remember correctly. I looked him up last year sometime, I think maybe when I saw his mother at the grocery store. I'm sure he didn't mean to scar me the way he did.
And this is why I'd rather not risk it if I don't know what the results will be. I know he was a HS boy. I'm pretty sure at this point that he was embarassed by the whole thing and didn't want to have to deal with me. I know that boys that I talk to at age 27 won't do this to me, and that if they do, it's a good sign that I wouldn't have wanted to do anyhthing with them anyways. But I worry. I like having friends. I don't want to trade a sure thing for a potential.
I did not date in HS. No one wanted to date me. No one ever asked me to do anything even vaguely date like, and I still don't know why. So you all can tell me I'm cute all you want (and you know who you are), but everyone else dated so I'm not going to believe you--even the valedictorians. Only the really really geeky boys didn't date, and me. I had one boyfriend, he was the best friend of my best friend's boy friend, he was from another school district, and we lasted all of two weeks, and yet i some how managed to seriously mess him up for a pretty long time. I didn't handle it right, but I didn't really know how to handle it, just that, in retrospect that was not the adult way to do it. I was 15. I was scared of being stuck in a relationship that I couldn't get out of, which was what I saw my best friend in. I'm sorry I hurt him, but I didn't know how else to get out.
So all my ancient history was not good, and severely traumatic. But I do actually have good boy things as well in my less ancient past--I made guy friends in college. I told someone I didn't want to date them (not in so many words, but without hurt feelings). I had many many people who I loved a whole lot. it was good. My senior year, I had such a crush on another senior. And I actually acted on it. He was on again/off again with a nice girl, and besides it was college and people at my college didn't date so much as go places together in large groups on a regular basis and then end up naked together. But I was brave, and asked him to a couple of things over the year--fireworks one time, i remember, and a party type thing another, and some third item but he couldn't ever do them but either was polite enough or truly interested, and thus always had real reasons he couldn't do them, and also always ended up returning the invites, but always to things I couldn't go to because I was busy with one thing or another. (a hockey game, most notably. And how I wanted to blow it off, and how I couldn't.) And it didn't get easier. It was freaking hard every time I asked him, but he just said no, sorry. He didn't stop talking to me, and he didn't change, and he'd still flirt with me a little (we weren't really in overlapping friends groups, so I only knew him from class, which limited the type of flirting.) One of my classes ended when he had a class start, and he would always be in the hallways when I came out of my room, and would always chat for a minute or two. And I remember having an outdoor class and thinking how annoying it would be not to get to chat with him for another day or two. And when he came up along the path to the class building, instead of going inside and being in the hall when I came out, he lingered on the steps and smoked ever so very very slowly so that when our class let out, oh, look at that, there he was.
I haven't dated since the boy in HS, and I tend to concentrate a whole lot on how messed up some of my interactions were. But I need to stop that. They made me, and they scarred me, and that's fine, but I need to remember how things were when they worked out. How wonderful spending time with Tom was. How fun even my limited interactions with Andy were. How much I like flirting with people. I don't know if it'll work, but I'm going to try. And you all need to remind me, okay?
Which brings us to current events.
No free tea today, which is good, cause I would have felt like a tramp, seeing as I um, sort of, asked the office boy out. It wasn't like, "Hey, want to go on a date." And he may not have known that was what I was asking, which was the way I wanted it to be. but he'd mentioned wanting to see a movie that we'd talked about before, and so I wrote to him and said that if he wanted to see it after work some time, that I thought it was a good idea. Which hopefully he even saw as an invitation, I don't really know. He said basically thanks but no thanks, and that was it. And an hour later, we discussed the fact that clearly no one will allow me to be dictator because they know how many people I'd have shot.
In mostly unrelated news, while people can't tell if I'm checking them out while I'm wearing sunglasses, they can tell if I tilt my head so I can see over the tops of the sunglasses, so perhaps I'd like to remember that for other mornings walking through the park. Dweeb.
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no subject
Date: 2004-06-15 12:41 am (UTC)-- anonymous Tanaisewatcher.
no subject
Date: 2004-06-15 06:11 am (UTC)Damn, that was all about me.
Anyway, your history doesn't determine the future--you can change it. Most guys wouldn't avoid you like that just cause they didn't like you in a romantic way--that's really lame and immature. And dating someone for two weeks won't screw someone up unless there were already major issues to begin with. Unless there was like cannibalism involved or something.
no subject
Date: 2004-06-15 07:19 am (UTC)This, I think, is actually one of the better/more harmless compliments you can give someone. (Not that I've ever received it.) Is that a completely Pig-ish/Guy thing to think?
I could also relate to your high school days... Those memories can definitely be painful, and I know mine still screw with my head to this day, but I just try to keep in mind that the social angst is in some way, I'm sure, responsible for my limited ability to write. Kind of like how happy people make awful comedians...
I don't know you very well, so I'm not going to give a bunch of sweet ego-boosters here, but you seem like a very cool girl to me. I may not be able to do anything about it, but I think you're under-selling yourself.
sunglasses
Date: 2004-06-16 08:17 am (UTC)Boys
Date: 2004-06-15 11:23 am (UTC)Thing to keep in mind: there's a hazard to going to a microscopic high school and then following it up with a small liberal arts college. The smaller the group of non-friend aquaintences that have to interact daily, the more likely the members are to have Official Assigned Reputations, like in HS (though I'm sure HS is worse, since the underdeveloped social minds need the categories to help them keep the people straight). I dated a couple of people at a 500-person HS, but they were, like me, Registered Science Nerds, and therefore had little to lose by such association (not that they didn't take crap about it, they just didn't automatically lose a pile of friends). Those who aspired to climb into a higher caste (NameOfSport Players, Band Members (What does it say about our HS that the Band Geeks were cooler than so many of the rest of us??)) eschewed me quite thoroughly, regardless of common interests, friendliness, etc. Your misfortune was that there was no male Registered Bookworm in our year for you to date, and that the caste system required Andy to choose between you and the sum of 10-20 other friends.
I distinctly recall the morning I overslept for my 600-person Gen Chem lecture in college and realized, as a bolt from the blue, "Wait! If I wear a sweatshirt to class today . . . and don't do my hair . . . NO one will NOTICE!!" It was so incredibly liberating, and it honestly didn't occur to me until second semester.
Re: Boys
Date: 2004-06-15 11:33 am (UTC)And I didn't have a problem with not dating in college--a) no one dated, and b) it took me until senior year (summer before, really) to notice that my body language was, at rest, usually actively hostile. "Don't even think of talking to me," basically. Had I really wanted to be involved with someone in college, I know I could have. Possibly not one of my crushes, but there were plenty of nice good looking interesting boys on campus, but I would have had to try, and I didn't feel like it. I think I needed another year in college just to figure out how to deal with boys that much better. Social redshirting, basically. :)
no subject
Date: 2004-06-15 11:27 am (UTC)I forgot if I had a point posting this in the first place. but I applaud your posts like these, it reminds me that real lives aren't like WB teen dramas. >:]
no subject
Date: 2004-06-15 12:49 pm (UTC)No, that's much more like my life now. If only the hot boy wasn't moving out for the summer...